Crypto spent 15 years building rails — lending, tokenization, stablecoins — and Jordi Visser argues the users it was built for were never meant to be human. In this conversation with Grace Remington and Sean Hagan, Visser lays out his Ghost Rails thesis, comparing today‘s moment to the 14-year gap between Netscape going public and the App Store finally putting the internet in everyone’s hands. He explains why AI agents, not retail wallets, are the inflection point for the agentic economy, and why that‘s “extremely positive” for Bitcoin specifically. If you’ve wondered what actually breaks the liquidity-driven narrative around this asset class, start here.
Chapters:
00:00 — Betting on nominal growth: can AI outrun the U.S. debt load？
02:06 — Why Bitcoin is the only asset surviving 20 years
04:01 — Crypto built the plumbing, AI agents became the users
07:33 — Tokenization turns $900 trillion of illiquid assets into money
09:50 — What has to break before the top 10% finally buy Bitcoin
12:18 — The Santa Claus effect and why belief beats innovation
14:23 — Swarms working 24/7 and the exponential investors ignore
16:47 — Debt-financed data centers, cancer breakthroughs, and the bond market scare
19:19 — The AI doomsday soap opera
23:09 — Bitcoin demand for 30 years and the case for good deflation
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